Divine Feat suggestion
Divine Feat suggestion
Just a suggestion but early on especially, the divine feats (Divine Might, Divine Shield) have a very short duration. 1 round per charisma modifier. If it is possible to change the duration to be double or change it from rounds to turns, this will be great. Low level is where it makes the most impact to help survive.
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
I shall give it a look today after job 
/tara
/tara
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
Hi again
I have now had the time to actually pounder upon the request and how best to accomodate it, if at all, while still taking into consideration overall class balance, or at least trying.
First of i was thinking of the paladin and his strength/weaknesses and would like to remind you of the changes done to bless weapons and holy sword, both heavely upgraded now.
Bless weapon now grants 2d8 divine damage to any weapon ( including creature weapons ) and makes it +3
Holy sword is in reality now Holy armor, working like the priest spell granting bonusses to armor or shield ( shield must be target'et individually ), while at the same time granting magic resistance.
As such with these changes i played my test pally up to level 21 and overcame quite a lot even solo, insuring me that the pally is indeed a strong and capeable character. To this should also be added the changes to healing spells making him a fairly allright healer also
My problem therefore is not to empower him even more to the point of overpower. Both of the feats in mention are ment to be invokeable powers not constantly in use, and I realise to this end there is also the feat extra turning. As such my main concern were to grant paladins too much extra power without them having to "pay for it" with the stats and item bonusses centered towards charisma...
On the other hand having 2 feats working 4 rounds might be a bit cheasy, so to speak...
Upping it to turns will simply mean a high level paladin with good enough charisma will in effect have these powers simoultaneously all the time so that is a no go. Doubling them might end up in near this situation as well considering our stat boost quests and items in generel making it quite obtainable to have +12 from items...
Thus my overall compromise have been to alter both feats so that they now have a minimum duration of 10 rounds.
This means even a low level/low geared paladin might have a minimum of time from them. Lets see if this have any impact but generelly i cannot use a factor on duration since a high level well geared paladin allready have these powers with quite a duration and power as it is...
/tara
I have now had the time to actually pounder upon the request and how best to accomodate it, if at all, while still taking into consideration overall class balance, or at least trying.
First of i was thinking of the paladin and his strength/weaknesses and would like to remind you of the changes done to bless weapons and holy sword, both heavely upgraded now.
Bless weapon now grants 2d8 divine damage to any weapon ( including creature weapons ) and makes it +3
Holy sword is in reality now Holy armor, working like the priest spell granting bonusses to armor or shield ( shield must be target'et individually ), while at the same time granting magic resistance.
As such with these changes i played my test pally up to level 21 and overcame quite a lot even solo, insuring me that the pally is indeed a strong and capeable character. To this should also be added the changes to healing spells making him a fairly allright healer also
My problem therefore is not to empower him even more to the point of overpower. Both of the feats in mention are ment to be invokeable powers not constantly in use, and I realise to this end there is also the feat extra turning. As such my main concern were to grant paladins too much extra power without them having to "pay for it" with the stats and item bonusses centered towards charisma...
On the other hand having 2 feats working 4 rounds might be a bit cheasy, so to speak...
Upping it to turns will simply mean a high level paladin with good enough charisma will in effect have these powers simoultaneously all the time so that is a no go. Doubling them might end up in near this situation as well considering our stat boost quests and items in generel making it quite obtainable to have +12 from items...
Thus my overall compromise have been to alter both feats so that they now have a minimum duration of 10 rounds.
This means even a low level/low geared paladin might have a minimum of time from them. Lets see if this have any impact but generelly i cannot use a factor on duration since a high level well geared paladin allready have these powers with quite a duration and power as it is...
/tara
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
Would it be possible to raise the minimum to 15 if the character has extend spell? This would be similar to a bard taking lingering song, thus increasing bard song from 10 rounds to 15 rounds. Perhaps double the duration if the paladin reaches 21 levels and remains a pure paladin. If this is too powerful, could reduce the damage and shield ac to just 1 per 2 charisma modifier. This would remove the desire to build a sorcerer with 6 paladin levels to boost ac.
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
Hello tara, your conclusion sounds reasonable although I just have a question on it. Would this be then 10 rounds + charisma modifier or the greater of 10 rounds or charisma modifier? Other than that, it would definitely help low level paladins that wield a two handed weapon.
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
Note: Bless Weapon only gives the weapon 2d8 divine and does not add +3 (tested in game with a standard longsword)tarashon wrote:
Bless weapon now grants 2d8 divine damage to any weapon ( including creature weapons ) and makes it +3
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
Good morning
As it is now it was 10 as a minimum and not charisma +10.
Ok must be me having forgotten to add the +3 to Rose's new scripts - will fix that today.
I dont see the "danger" of adding 15 minimum if you have extend spell feat.
All in all you guys are actually playing fighters and barbarians so in that aspect i suppose you "are very fit" to help decide the change. But truly keep in mind that the paladin is NOT supposed to be a better tank than the barbarian nor a better damage dealer than the warrior...
/tara
As it is now it was 10 as a minimum and not charisma +10.
Ok must be me having forgotten to add the +3 to Rose's new scripts - will fix that today.
I dont see the "danger" of adding 15 minimum if you have extend spell feat.
All in all you guys are actually playing fighters and barbarians so in that aspect i suppose you "are very fit" to help decide the change. But truly keep in mind that the paladin is NOT supposed to be a better tank than the barbarian nor a better damage dealer than the warrior...
/tara
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
KK, ill work on it today so that the modifier for duration will be 10 + extend5 + cha modifier but maximum will then be 15 + level/4, making it maximum 25 for a level 40 paladin thus taking some back from the top levels...
Sounds reasonable ?
/tara
Sounds reasonable ?
/tara
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
That sounds very fair. Thank you Tara.
Re: Divine Feat suggestion
Howdy folks
So after alot of carefull thoughts I have actually decided for even more changes….
Divine Might now has duration 10 + ( extend spell +5 ) + Charisma modifier( maximum 10 ) , granting between 10 to 25 rounds.
Divine shield now has duration ( 10 + ( extend spell +5 ) + Charisma modifier( maximum 10 ) ) *3 , granting between 30 to 75 rounds.
Following is an explanation for the change in duration for the divine Shield, since this feat also has other changes…
1. It really struck me when Warchief mentioned the aid for paladins wearing 2-handers. I have always envisioned the paladin with shield.
2. The paladin already have bonus AC to both his armor and, if used, shield compared to fx fighters using his holy sword spell.
3. I believe that the few spells ( and these feats to me are like spells ) the semicasters have available should be special in effect and if possible useable as buffs to others, for groups of melee and semicasters to better be able to cope with the harsness of Alangara – usually demanding or highly benefitting from caster aid/buffs.
I also like for spells or feats to actually make sense. So when the divine shield feat actually grants DODGE ac bonus I believe this is a fail of sorts.
Another thing is that I try to balance benefits/drawbacks , as far as possible, from low level up til end levels. The massive changes to caps on damage spells is an example of this…
Following spells for group use is at this time DODGE bonus in Alangara...
Undeaths eternal foe – caps at ac 8
Bardsong – Caps at ac 8
Boots – easely made 5 from forge, and epic drops goes higher…
This basically means that the normal DODGE ac actually becomes obsolete in a diverse epic group, since we are already above the hardcoded +20 cap.
So what I have done and that need game testing ( since my test pally don’t even have these feats ) is as follows…
The Divine Shield now grants SHIELD ac.
This serves the benefit of preventing low level paladins getting comparatively too high ac when using the feat together with their shield – since they are already special boosted from the holy sword spell, that now is customized into armor and shield ac boost.
Using the feat at level 15+ will also grant the paladin a potion that is intended to work on any creature user, but that does not summon another.
The effect of both feat and potion is Shield AC = CharismaModifier but minimum +4 and maximum +10. Latest to prevent unreasonable high AC compared to currently available shields…
It should be noted that it actually stacks with a physical shield so that this means a top SHIELD AC of 13 - if using a towershield.
This, as I see it, makes for a nice adition useable also for other melee characters not using shield , and the durations between 3 and 7,5 minuttes are both within range of the caster version of the shield potions since it has duration of 5 minuttes. However this is set at +4 for all users so the pally version will become better for the paladin him/her-self and users thinking in charisma, fx via spells and item boosts. Basically this boost the paladin as it is intended to do , but I feel better now than the standard and still it does not give the paladin unreasonable advantages over other fighters as they can use the potions for the precise same effects.
The potions are now tested and they work
I am tremendously looking forward to hear about your feedbacks.
/tara
So after alot of carefull thoughts I have actually decided for even more changes….
Divine Might now has duration 10 + ( extend spell +5 ) + Charisma modifier( maximum 10 ) , granting between 10 to 25 rounds.
Divine shield now has duration ( 10 + ( extend spell +5 ) + Charisma modifier( maximum 10 ) ) *3 , granting between 30 to 75 rounds.
Following is an explanation for the change in duration for the divine Shield, since this feat also has other changes…
1. It really struck me when Warchief mentioned the aid for paladins wearing 2-handers. I have always envisioned the paladin with shield.
2. The paladin already have bonus AC to both his armor and, if used, shield compared to fx fighters using his holy sword spell.
3. I believe that the few spells ( and these feats to me are like spells ) the semicasters have available should be special in effect and if possible useable as buffs to others, for groups of melee and semicasters to better be able to cope with the harsness of Alangara – usually demanding or highly benefitting from caster aid/buffs.
I also like for spells or feats to actually make sense. So when the divine shield feat actually grants DODGE ac bonus I believe this is a fail of sorts.
Another thing is that I try to balance benefits/drawbacks , as far as possible, from low level up til end levels. The massive changes to caps on damage spells is an example of this…
Following spells for group use is at this time DODGE bonus in Alangara...
Undeaths eternal foe – caps at ac 8
Bardsong – Caps at ac 8
Boots – easely made 5 from forge, and epic drops goes higher…
This basically means that the normal DODGE ac actually becomes obsolete in a diverse epic group, since we are already above the hardcoded +20 cap.
So what I have done and that need game testing ( since my test pally don’t even have these feats ) is as follows…
The Divine Shield now grants SHIELD ac.
This serves the benefit of preventing low level paladins getting comparatively too high ac when using the feat together with their shield – since they are already special boosted from the holy sword spell, that now is customized into armor and shield ac boost.
Using the feat at level 15+ will also grant the paladin a potion that is intended to work on any creature user, but that does not summon another.
The effect of both feat and potion is Shield AC = CharismaModifier but minimum +4 and maximum +10. Latest to prevent unreasonable high AC compared to currently available shields…
It should be noted that it actually stacks with a physical shield so that this means a top SHIELD AC of 13 - if using a towershield.
This, as I see it, makes for a nice adition useable also for other melee characters not using shield , and the durations between 3 and 7,5 minuttes are both within range of the caster version of the shield potions since it has duration of 5 minuttes. However this is set at +4 for all users so the pally version will become better for the paladin him/her-self and users thinking in charisma, fx via spells and item boosts. Basically this boost the paladin as it is intended to do , but I feel better now than the standard and still it does not give the paladin unreasonable advantages over other fighters as they can use the potions for the precise same effects.
The potions are now tested and they work
I am tremendously looking forward to hear about your feedbacks.
/tara