( FIXED ) Mibutzz Ravagers

[Balkoth]

Are dropping their gold/fangs on the ground (and also dropping random loot).

[Balkoth]

The drop rate seems it also might be at the "old" 10% rate if that could be checked as well. Another few spawn points in the tunnels would also be nice if possible.

[tarashon]

Today ill basically start to go over all the monster / spawn related isues so sometime tomorrow at latest all these isues will be adressed...

/tara

[tarashon]

Way more spawns now, generelly tougher, and their fangs have had their value said to allmost nil, as together with gold drops these were allmost 500 gold per kill which is way too high.

They now also drop directly in inventory and droprate is 20% and no longer 10% as you correctly reported.

/tara

[Balkoth]

Way more spawns now, generelly tougher, and their fangs have had their value said to allmost nil, as together with gold drops these were allmost 500 gold per kill which is way too high.

What are you trying to accomplish overall with this? I thought the general idea was that as you increased in level you'd have to seek out new enemies to keep gaining a reasonable amount of experience but that these new enemies (if you could reasonably handle them) would also reward as much or more than old enemies (which is why you need to be more powerful to face them). But since gold seems to be the main factor in epic levels so far...there's a strong incentive to maximize gold gain and worry less about experience (especially for non-casters but this holds true for casters as well -- going from level 27 to 30 as a sorcerer is only about a 10% increase in spell damage, best case...getting extra spell slots or better defenses will matter far more).

I mean, think about a pure Fighter for a moment (the "default"). Going from level 20 to 40 he's going to gain the following...

10 BAB
3 AB from feats (Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Prowess)
4 damage from feats (Epic Weapon Specialization)
5 strength from levels
7 strength from feats (Great Strength VII)

More HP (but this value matters little unless a Cleric/Druid is casting Heal/Mass Heal -- everything else heals for a flat amount meaning having 500 HP or 400 HP barely matters)
2 AC from feats (Armor Skin)
2 AC from skills (Tumble)
10 saving throws (useless vs non-spell attacks and of limited use versus many/most spell attacks)

Notice something there? You're gaining 19 AB and 10 damage overall in terms of offense but only 4 AC and more HP for defense. In other words, basically ALL of your defensive increase is going to come from gear and that gear is going to come from gold. A level 24 fighter is like 90% as good as a 40 fighter when it comes to surviving stuff in terms of raw character stats. Ditto for Rangers -- Favored Enemies and Bane of Enemies? All offense. Paladin? Also basically all offense (Divine Shield if Cha Focused will get so high it stops actually adding AC). Barbarians are slightly better off -- they gain 6 damage reduction from level 20 to 40 (assuming pure Barbarian, going from 4/- to 10/-) but when enemies are hitting you for 60+ damage being able to shrug off 10 damage as a level 40 Barbarian compared to 5 as a level 24 Barbarian is a pretty minor difference. Obviously a Dwarven Defender is a different story but that's literally a Prestige Class built around defense.

So yes. Experience is nice, gold for better gear is usually more important.

In that regard, let's talk about income. And keep in mind the following figures are for my crazy WM with the damage output of 1d6 + 5 + 10d8 + 2d10 + 2d12 + 5 + 16 = 98.5 damage per hit with 10-20/x3 criticals.

Prior to the latest version, I could make about 150k an hour grinding the Mibutzz Ravagers. They dropped 360g, a 10% chance at a 1200 fang, twice their XP value (which is going to be between 30 and 50 gold for most people), and sometimes random loot (which you picked up since you had to loot their remains anyway). That final number also factors in the 6.3k an hour for Mind Immunity potions.

Two things slowed me down: first, I had to loot the remains, which took time. Two, there simply weren't enough of them to constantly kill, had to either wait around for several minutes or go elsewhere until they respawned.

In the latest version (with more of them and quest items/gold go to inventory), I can still make...about 150k an hour. They drop 250g, 20% chance at a 120 fang, and twice their XP value (not worth looting their remains). Due to an issue with the fort area I still have to wait around a few minutes after finishing a "run" (all four encounter triggers are at the entrance of the fort...which means you basically have to run back and keep triggering them after you clear a group (unless you're waiting like 13+ minutes per cycle rather than 10 minutes)).

Now, those numbers mean nothing in a vacuum, of course. So let's look at some points of comparison (keep in mind I'm selling any dropped items at the Thieves Guild for 20% more gold -- which for something like the Wolfen Fangs is a straight 20% bonus):

A, the armor in Tolmar costs a little over 700k. Which means to get the armor alone, you need to grind the Ravagers for about 5 hours in order to earn enough gold. That's pure mechanical grinding with effectively no downtime, no exploration, just nose to the grindstone to earn gold. And again, that's with a WM ravaging through the ravagers -- most people are going to be going at 1/3 to 1/2 the speed which means 10-15 hours of grinding gold.

B, farming the Forest Giants earns about 180k an hour (after factoring in the Mind Immunity potion costs) -- this is the video I originally made, showing clearing out the Forest Giant area in under 10 minutes which could then be repeated in a cycle. The Forest Giants are also easier in my opinion.

C, farming the Blizzard Wolfen and Yeti (first half of the zone) earns about 240k an hour. The Wolfen are actually the best mobs to farm overall -- they don't hit hugely hard (or have special abilities that require potions), are vulnerable to fire (Flame Weapon/Darkfire and many of the best Mage/Cleric/Druid spells), and are low level (meaning lots of them spawn if you're higher level). However, at my WM clears out those packs under 5 minutes so he needs to keep himself occupied for another 5 minutes until he respawns...and the Yeti hills are right next door! Again, the Yetis are vulnerable to Fire (and Electrical/Magic) and have no special abilities (though they do hit rather hard when you first encounter them at lower level). Using the Druid Boots you can make it through all of Blizzard Forest and half of the Yeti Hills (stop before you find the casters), port back to the inn, and repeat.

Obviously at lower levels you can't get 240k an hour, but 80-100k an hour from like level 10 on isn't out of the question if you have good offense and fire damage. Then as you start being able to clear the zone in under 10 minutes you start doing the first few packs of Yeti (which are still good income but like 20% less than the Wolfen). This route is how I earned the 1.75 million gold needed for my weapon. Lots and lots and lots of grinding.

D, farming the swamp earned about 160k an hour when the items dropped on the bodies which you had to loot. Presumably this would be like 180-200k now, possibly more.

So, to summarize that...the new Mibutzz Ravagers are...

- less gold than Forest Giants
- less gold than Blizzard Wolfen
- less gold than Yeti
- less gold than Swamp Creatures

And despite that, for most people it'll take 10+ hours of farming in order to be able to afford their armor from Tolmar (and even more for the shields/helmets/amulets/staffs).

Now maybe the gold income (and costs) across the server in general needs to be reevaluated/rebalanced, and I wouldn't argue with that, but the Ravager changes seem to make them worse to farm despite being significantly tougher than the other options.

[Balkoth]

Small correction: the math for the Wolfen -> Yeti run actually works out closer to 210k best case (rather than 240k) -- apparently the runs I used to judge initially had some good luck. Upon actually counting the creatures and running the math you get a smaller number.